Rating the summon monster spells was a roller coaster ride. Through the mid-levels the new monsters were surprising and effective, peaking out at level 7 with the amazing Tyrannosaurus, and then nose-diving through SMVIII and SMIX.
While I still agree with Treantmonk on his points about why summoning works, SMVIII and SMIX seem to be best spent summoning multiple creatures from SMVII's list.
Maybe I'm being a little harsh to SMIX, but comparing it to the Bestiary Statistics provided by Shoelessinsight, the monsters just don't seem that great, especially when some SMVII options sport similar statistics with the ability to smite evil.
But that's just me venting. Here's an introduction!
My latest sleep depriver was a Summon Monster guide for my Complete Wizard guide. It was a good experience for me in putting things into perspective, but I present it to you early because it turns out :GASP: Wizards aren't the only class that can cast this spell. So presenting it as a separate guide could be useful to a lot of people.
As far as work on the complete guide goes, all I have left is the spells and then it's just adjusting the guide according to comments I receive from you guys.
Also, feel free to make arguments for anything you disagree with in this guide, I need to hear them, because I would like to be wrong in some of my assessments.
The Bulette is actually a summon monster VI, it's a typo on the d20pfsrd website.
rashiakas wrote:The Bulette is actually a summon monster VI, it's a typo on the d20pfsrd website.
Some initial comments.
The giant ant worker does not get grab so its CMB is 4 less then you indicate (those 4 points were a benefit of grab)
Any summoned creature cannot use teleport abilities (you've listed this wrong for most of your outsiders)
Dire Boar is SM4 not 3.
Not sure why anyone would use an ant drone, it just adds a template to the normal soldier ant. which doesn't not increase its HD at all. Using SM4 to summon a 2HD ant seems ill advised.
It also might be worth noting that the many of the animals on the SM4 list actually have 5HD, thus making them eligible for some DR good/evil from the celestial/fiendish template that gets applied (as well as energy resistance 10 instead of 5). Sadly, the dire Ape, Giant Wasp, and Giant Ant Drone miss out as they have less the 5 HD.
Also, the Dire Tiger and the Giant Octopus on the SM6 list reach the 11+ HD line that moves them up to DR 10 alignment and 15 resists (further confirming the awesomeness of the cat I suppose)
Would have thought the Unholy Blight power of the Erinyes devil, and being able to spam it at will at range, while flying, would have gotten a mention. 6d8 per round (plus sickened) 20' radius burst with a 220' range is not a bad thing. just have to avoid the non-evil friendlies =)
(same for Chaos Hammer and the Hezrou later, but since thats SM8, its less sexy)
The Gaele (and the Trumpet Archon) cannot use Raise Dead as it has an expensive material component which is restricted in summoned critter spellcasting.
Hey Kaptain, I'm liking your guide quite a bit. A couple of comments though:
-If you are going to list alternative summons, it be nice if you gave some more basic information on what they are. IE they are religion specific summons that only work for priests of the appropriate deity. Whether your GM rules that only divine casters can be "priests" or any follower can be considered one is something only he knows. Also, if you could list which deity is required with each alternate summon, this list would go from being something nice to something I would print out and bring with me.
-Lantern Archons are pretty awesome in the right situation, especially when you can multiple out at once. Stacking aura of menaces together and spamming attacks that ignore pretty much all defenses, while being able to fly and provide another mediocre buff at will is pretty damn nice. They are especially useful if you can summon before a fight starts.
-You should at least note the Lemures ability to see in supernatural darkness. That's a nice option to have at 3rd or 4th level- especially in PFS which seems to have a lo of deeper darkness effects going on.
More to come later probably.
Lame, made me go look and notice the PRD has not been updated to show that Riding Dog is now just Dog in SMI.
So far so good reading through, just made a Summoning Wizard so this should help.
Are there any similar guides for Summon Nature's Ally?
What a fantastic guide! I particularly love the summaries before each listing of monsters. It's so incredibly useful.
 jjaamm | Jun 5, 2012, 02:09 pm |
Good work. do agree with Merkatz, in that you might want to list that some of those are alternate choices based on your deity. For instance in PFS only clerics of asmodeus can use a hell hound at level 2.
You include the teleportation abilities in the guide, I thought summoned monsters lost them all
Alternate lists are always religion specific iirc.
 d20pfsrd.com | Jun 5, 2012, 08:44 pm |
The Bulette is actually a summon monster VI, it's a typo on the d20pfsrd website.
This is now fixed.
You know, it's pretty easy to let us know about mistakes and it usually takes us just a couple of minutes to fix them so please do feel free to report these things to us! :)
MC Templar wrote:You include the teleportation abilities in the guide, I thought summoned monsters lost them all
This was a matter of not going over those sort of rules for a refresh before going through the guide.
I remembered that you couldn't summon with summons, and that the Wish spell didn't work, but for whatever reason I didn't remember the teleportation rule (And the Raise Dead rule)
Fixed it though. Thanks for pointing it out.
EvilMinion wrote:Some initial comments.
The giant ant worker does not get grab so its CMB is 4 less then you indicate (those 4 points were a benefit of grab)
Any summoned creature cannot use teleport abilities (you've listed this wrong for most of your outsiders)
Dire Boar is SM4 not 3.
Not sure why anyone would use an ant drone, it just adds a template to the normal soldier ant. which doesn't not increase its HD at all. Using SM4 to summon a 2HD ant seems ill advised.
It also might be worth noting that the many of the animals on the SM4 list actually have 5HD, thus making them eligible for some DR good/evil from the celestial/fiendish template that gets applied (as well as energy resistance 10 instead of 5). Sadly, the dire Ape, Giant Wasp, and Giant Ant Drone miss out as they have less the 5 HD.
Also, the Dire Tiger and the Giant Octopus on the SM6 list reach the 11+ HD line that moves them up to DR 10 alignment and 15 resists (further confirming the awesomeness of the cat I suppose)
Would have thought the Unholy Blight power of the Erinyes devil, and being able to spam it at will at range, while flying, would have gotten a mention. 6d8 per round (plus sickened) 20' radius burst with a 220' range is not a bad thing. just have to avoid the non-evil friendlies =)
(same for Chaos Hammer and the Hezrou later, but since thats SM8, its less sexy)
The Gaele (and the Trumpet Archon) cannot use Raise Dead as it has an expensive material component which is restricted in summoned critter spellcasting.
The grab I quote is from the OGC, but you might be right in that it's a typo. I think I'm going to leave it as is with a disclaimer that it might be a typo for now until I can get more info.
Fixed the teleport problem.
Dire Boar is a level earlier for some deities, which I will address when I rewrite the intro in a moment.
The Ant Drone's HP is relatively weak. I need to change that word "Viable" and put "Usable". He's still an orange option, after all the 19 DC on his poison isn't all bad. At level 7 and 8 it's around a 55% to 50% chance of applying the poison.
I'll mention the DC in the summary for SM4.
I did see Unholy Blight, but because of the DC and targeting only good creatures I kind of glanced over it. I'll mention it though. It has about a 50% success rate on average.
Fixed the Raise dead thing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hey Kaptain, I'm liking your guide quite a bit. A couple of comments though:
-If you are going to list alternative summons, it be nice if you gave some more basic information on what they are. IE they are religion specific summons that only work for priests of the appropriate deity. Whether your GM rules that only divine casters can be "priests" or any follower can be considered one is something only he knows. Also, if you could list which deity is required with each alternate summon, this list would go from being something nice to something I would print out and bring with me.
-Lantern Archons are pretty awesome in the right situation, especially when you can multiple out at once. Stacking aura of menaces together and spamming attacks that ignore pretty much all defenses, while being able to fly and provide another mediocre buff at will is pretty damn nice. They are especially useful if you can summon before a fight starts.
-You should at least note the Lemures ability to see in supernatural darkness. That's a nice option to have at 3rd or 4th level- especially in PFS which seems to have a lo of deeper darkness effects going on.
More to come later probably.
Yeah, my lack of explanation of the alternate summons was something I was going to do before I posted, but for some reason forgot.
Gave lantern archon a half-green to make it stand out and mentioned the multiple summoning benefit. I think you've got a point there.
Made a mention on the Lemure.
Thanks for the feedback!
lalallaalal wrote:Are there any similar guides for Summon Nature's Ally?
Heh, you should PM Shoelessinight and see if he'll do it.
He's more of a druid enthusiast than I am.
Cheapy wrote:Alternate lists are always religion specific iirc.
Yeah, I added an explanation to the intro (or a reference to an explanation, since I wanted to fit it all in one page.)
To note -- the lantern archon has some pretty hefty DR -- not many creatures either count to overcome it or have the +4 weaponry to do so. Through levels 5~9 it's survivability is actually pretty high because of this, so use it to absorb hits that you would otherwise take (like AoO's by having it shoot while in range or move through). With its aid ability it can aid, shoot round 2, then if it takes damage aid again before repeating.
I know this is a general summoning guide, but if you have a bard in the party the lantern archon can look much better (especially in groups) -- when buffed with bardic performance and possibly good hope they hit rather consistently for a better 1d6+4 damage per ray (two rays each). Without a bard. well they are usually still fairly consistent but not nearly as nice.
With a bard and haste they get fearsome -- three ranged touch attacks that ignore DR. (And if, say, a high-level paladin gives them aura of justice? Hope the enemy has a high touch AC. he's going to need it, badly.)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Bulette is actually a summon monster VI, it's a typo on the d20pfsrd website.
This is now fixed.
You know, it's pretty easy to let us know about mistakes and it usually takes us just a couple of minutes to fix them so please do feel free to report these things to us! :)
You're right. I should have reported that, but I was lazy. Will sacrifice some players in my next game to atone for my sin, sorry :(
